Affiliate Marketing | Who’s teaching this strategy?
I’ve received three such requests this week. What idiot affiliate marketing guru is teaching this strategy?
Following is a fictional conversation that’s based on those three phone calls:
(Ring-Ring)
Donna Fox: Hello?
Clueless Caller: Hi Donna, I was calling to see if you’d be willing to be interviewed on your topic of (insert credit or marketing to women, and in one case, “whatever you’d like to talk about”) to my list?
Donna Fox: Yes, that would be lovely. What are you thinking
Clueless Caller: I’d sign up as an affiliate to promote your product, it would be great if you’d give something for free too, and we’ll record the call so I can sell the recording and transcripts. I’m just getting started, and I have a small list, only 150 peeps or so, so to really get a lot of people on the call you can mail your list for the
Donna Fox: (interrupting) You mean you want me to send MY list, to a call where the content is provided by ME, and you’ll get an affiliate commission?
Clueless Caller: Well, yes, how else do I build a list?
One of these day’s I’m going to get down and write an ebook. I’m going to give it away for absolutely free as my gift to the world of internet marketing. It’s either going to be called:
Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Engagement
or
Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Etiquette
It will of course cover how JV relationships should work, with an emphasis on fairness, thinking of others, and on creating relationships that secure a second JV opportunity, instead of looking for just the first one. In other words, how to treat JV partners like a relationship, not a transaction.
So, which title should I use? Seem like the first, rules of engagement, is very male centered, and the second, Rules of Etiquette, very female. Maybe there’s a marketing to women test and lesson here as well.
Dear readers, I’m starting the research now. I’d love it if you’d comment and:
1) vote on which title you prefer
2) Tell me your worst “clueless” JV story
July 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Donna, this is why one of my favorite sayings is: common sense is our most depleted reosurce.
I don’t think it’s a male - female thing. It’s more a common sense vs. common idiot thing. But you could have a point in that women are brought up to give AND take. Usually give b4 taking.
Societal rules & upbringing have a big impact on biz performance. That’s why I’m happy when @CoachDeb says I can bring out the woman in me. It makes me more money!
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
@JP Micek -
I didn’t think I had made a point that is was a male/female thing.. or maybe I did in the subtext. I mentioned gender because of the book titles.
To be fair, honest and have completely open disclosure, all three of the people who approached me this week were in fact women… but maybe it’s a man teaching this bonehead strategy
You know I’m playing, but I totally agree that common sense is our most depleted resource. Less talking and more thinking would be an improvement world around!
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Donna,
If this wasn’t so sad - I would say this is very entertaining
Sometimes it makes me wonder - Why when people go on the Web, they completely turn off the “offline” thinking?
Why don’t people ask themselves a simple question before they act or write something -
Would I do This If I was talking to a person face-to-face?
I think this would have addressed most of the issues
Cheers,
Alex Sysoef
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
@Alex -
The sad part is, Alex, I’d swear these peeps would behave this way right to my face.
That’s why I want to know the affiliate marketing “guru” that’s teaching these strategies. The three women who called me were just automatons… they didn’t think, that’s part of the problem. In my view the bigger problem is the person who’s teaching the system to all the non-thinkers that’s just not a successful strategy!
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Hi Donna!
LOL That’s … um … an interesting way to get a JV - huh?
I’d pick Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Etiquette OR Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Common Sense For The Clueless.
Sad part is that someone probably DID tell them that’s the way to do do a JV. Hope they find a better ‘mentor’ - SOON!
Have Fun!
Rick Wlson aka CorpRebel
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
@Rick Wilson -
“Common Sense for the Clueless” i like that, a lot!
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
You know that reminds me when I had to deal with content theft. I managed to hit the source of the problem - a guy who was teaching his customers to steal other people’s content via RSS and create splogs to earn via AdSense.
Since I was going directly after his primary AdSense account due to copyright infringement - he was pissed, because he thought he was doing me a favor by grabbing my entire content and reposting it elsewhere…
Moral is - people follow the stupidity when it sounds so simple even if SHOULDN’T be using it.
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
@Alex -
Yeah, RSS to blog was pretty popular (and still is).
People do seem to think that reposting your blog posts (and other content from your websites) helps you. In some ways any exposure is good exposure. In others, if you did it with a link back or direct call to action after the copied post, that wouldn’t be so bad.
Problem is too many peeps will just use the feed to post to their blog, and disable linkbacks. That’s not so good, and I’d call that stealing.
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Donna,
I like the “clueless” suggestion, too, but I’d still like to see you work “etiquette” in there somewhere. Excellent post!
Buz
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July 8th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Donna,
You keep on Ranting! I’ve actually heard this proposed as a strategy somewhere in the past week. My problem is I’ve filtered through so much IM stuff, I can’t remember where. Obviously it was in the filtered out portion.
Another Title Suggestion:
NOT! So Common - Common Sense for Approaching New People.
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
@Mike Cunningham -
I think I know who the guru culprit might me, but I don’t want to “out” them without proof.
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Thanks for sharing because really, everyone starts out clueless.
I like the title JV engagement because using the word Etiquette might confuse people a little.
I think this books needs to be written, all the advice you get is do a JV! But the people I know only do JV with other 4 million-member-listowners.
What you can do when you have a HUGE list and what you do when you first start are 2 different things, no one is teaching the how to start part, just the end part where they do one call and make $483,000!
so Please please please write the book!
Dr. Wright
The Wright Place TV Show
http://www.wrightplacetv.com
http://www.twitter.com/drwright1
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
@Dr Wright -
I’m really torn on the title. I like JV Engagement because of the movie “Rules of Engagement” And I like “etiquette” because I think this industry needs a little more Emily Post.
You’re absolutely right that what you do with a JV when you’re just starting and what you do as an experienced person is different. And it should be, by the time you’re an experienced peep you’ve built the relationships.
Fundamentally though, it’s the same. Build the relationship first, grow your list, create your proof on your own dime, then ask for a JV when you know you won’t be wasting their time.
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Melody Campbell, The Small Business Guru Reply:
August 5th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Beautifully commentted Dr. Wright! You really said that well. There are different rules, etiquette depending on what you bring to the connection and who you’re approaching and what they bring.
I probably learned the hard way, by being clueless at first. However, the people I asked were so gracious the way they pointed out to me the inequity of what I was requesting. Early on some very amazing people literally let me “practice” on them. And now I almost never have anyone say they don’t want to be on my show. The only person who ever told me no, was also very gracious. Seth Godin very politely told me he was not doing podcasts for his book Meatball Sundae. Ahh, maybe someday.;)
Write the book, Donna, I’ll read it. There’s always more to learn.
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DonnaFox Reply:
September 21st, 2008 at 4:19 pm
@Melody Campbell, The Small Business Guru -
I too love the idea of a gender section of the rules of engagement. We interact differently, which is a point I try to highlight in my Marketing To Women program at Why She Buys
At some point, Seth Godin’s going to come to YOU and ask for a podcast
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Oh yes and you could use Common Sense for the CLueless and just make it different topics
JV
website stuff
mastermind manners
all kinds of cool stuff
Dr.Wright
The WRight Place TV Show
http://www.wrightplacetv.com
http://www.twitter.com/drwright1
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
I really shouldn’t laugh at this. I am though. The fact that common sense is anything but common both online and off is and has been pretty evident for too long it’s not even funny.
It’s almost sad to say it should be a starting point. I know it’s been one of mine when teaching anything or anyone for that matter.
As for the title, maybe you can mix the etiquette and engagement together. After all, it really is hard to separate the two in teaching or explaining the process.
Remember, there is a reason that they invented the drive through. People, IMHO are inherently lazy.
The whole concept of “pushing the easy button” is quite rampant these days, especially when it comes to internet marketing.
I feel another rant coming on so I’ll let it go at that, and go back to writing my next ebook about pushbutton profits.;)
thks
Paul
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
My worse “clueless” JV story happened about 6 months ago when I had a guy send me a JV proposal that…
1. Began with nothing more than a 300 word hyped-up ad for his newly released ebook.
2. Although he did remember to slip in a mention of my business name in his proposal, he addressed me personally as “sir”.
3. Instead of giving me a copy of his book to examine, this dude actually expected me to buy it - at a 75% discount of course. WTF?
I would have taken great pleasure in being able to direct him to a copy of “Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Etiquette”!
Sharon Bray-McPherson
@SharonMcP
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
First off, I vote for “Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Etiquette” as the title of this badly needed gem.
And my cheesiest JV offers are where I am the lucky winner of a chance to promote HIS or HER product to MY subscribers at MY ezine so I can make a commission selling his or her offer as THEIR affiliates, like I cannot find things I want to promote and sign up to do so on my own? Funny, my advertisers willingly pay ME to advertise their offers to MY subs, lol
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July 8th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Sadly, MANY will go to their grave with All the ‘Common Sense’ God gave them for their journey here.
Your story is a sad testament to the ME centered mentality today. Unfortunately, there are a lot of thoughtless people out there. My guess is you probably let them down nicely, or did you DO any of the JV’s?
Here’s another thought: “Get a Clue!- Donna Fox’s Etiquette Guide - JV Rules of Engagement”
Jim Z - in AZ - NearlyLive
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
@Jim Zaccaria -
I’m doing one of them, so she can have the content for her promos, letting her sell the call and transcript without asking for anything in return, and not promoting it to my list.
She’s lucky, she was the first to ask this week, so she got me before I had a pet-peeve
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July 8th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
how about…
joint venture doesnt mean smoke a joint before you venture to make the call
bit long as a title but you canwork with your a smart girl
Puddy
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
@Robert -
Bob, this comment is SO you
I’d expect nothing less.
Rumor has it I’m seeing you at Masters Seminar in 10 days Is the rumor true?
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July 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Here’s a good one…
I had an affiliate in the my market, stock trading, approach me about an awesome new product he had for my list. But it was so super secret and exclusive he could only tell me via telephone, so we made a phone appointment.
The tension was amazing.
(well, not really)
So then I had a phone call with him and he gave me a super secret website to type in…
So I typed it in…
and up come this amazing website that taught you
HOW TO PLAY POKER
Hello? My list is stock traders.
His logic to me was: Dude, stock traders LOVE to play poker because they’re gamblers at heart. Plus, I have So-and-So, some namebrand Poker allstar, behind this site. You’ve heard of So-and-So, right?
Uh, no.
He couldn’t believe it when I told him half my list would unsubscribe if I sent them a How to Play Poker offer.
Come on now.
Anyway, he was heartbroken, and I think he thought I was a moron for not knowing who So-and-So is.
Now, if he had some dog grooming products, I would’ve promoted those to my stock traders immediately. After all, we all know stock traders love to groom dogs.
Greg
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
@Greg -
That’s a riot! You’re the only person I know who can pack poker, stock trading and dog grooming into such a short conversation. Well, maybe Ben Mack, but then he’d talk a long time explaining how the third cousin of the guy who created the Dogs Playing Poker velvet painting was a stock trader and that’s why the stock value of Purina plummeted when Poker Without Cards was published…something like that
Anyway, good luck on your impending launch of Forex Profit Accelerator. PEEPS Pay attention to this launch. Greg Poulos is the man and really knows his stuff!
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July 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
@DonnaFox - I KNEW You were Too Nice to just tell them to P-ss-O–! Dare I say, you have a HUGE heart?
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
@Jim Zaccaria -
thank you
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July 8th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Great story… so common!
I’ve got a nice one, too…
How about the woman that wanted me to help her become a success by replacing my AdSense publisher ID on my sites with HER publisher ID for one day?!?!
Yikes…
Joel
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
@Joel Comm -
hahahahahaha… okay, that may be the best one yet!
At least, as far as charities go, that’s a clever request.
Looking forward to seeing you at Ross Goldberg’s Masters Seminar
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July 8th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Hi Donna,
I like “Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Etiquette”
I don’t a have a story that comes close to yours
but I am interested to find out what you think of
this scenario…
I have a friend (we met online) that “introduced”
me to a JV partner.
JV partner and I recorded a live teleseminar to
sell his product. Friend got a piece of the pie,
I got a piece of the pie. Cool right?
Teleseminar re-play went into my follow-up series
to make it evergreen. Friend wanted piece of pie
for all future sales from re-play.
Your thoughts?
- James Grandstaff
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
@James Grandstaff -
It’s an interesting question, whether an introduction warrants continued profit.
I’ve grappled with this one myself. My top affiliate I met at a live event, created a relationship with him. Later, he signed up for my affiliate program, came in under someone’s link. I had a two-tier program. She makes five figures a year by simply having gotten her cookie in my friend’s computer
Is it okay with me? Sure. If having a residual component means that they will be more likely to make introductions for me to have profitable joint ventures, I’ll all for it.
Is it ok to also NOT pay into the future? I think that’s ok too. What’s really important is setting expectations before hand about what to expect. That’s going to be a big part of the Rules of JV Etiquette
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July 8th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Donna,
I get the same calls! Are yours all wanna be Internet marketers? Why should I share my real estate list with Internet marketers wanting to grow their lists?
Joy~
Jeanette
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DonnaFox Reply:
July 8th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
@Jeanette
It’s interesting, my list is becoming rather blurred, more a reflection of ME. the more I try and compartmentalize, the more I feel like I have multiple personalities
So instead I just let my list be my list, and market business growth strategies…and things and people that I LIKE
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July 8th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Hi Donna,
I vote “Rules of Engagement”. I think you’re more likely to get more people reading it and goodness knows this “rule book” REALLY needs to get out to AS MANY PEOPLE as possible. Can’t wait to refer some “internet marketers” to it!
~Susie @blogi360
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July 8th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
What about a title of Engagement Etiquette? Etiquette Engagement? I would love to read the book, by the way. Mike Logan, who loves alliteration.
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July 9th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Being a “newbie” who is still doing her homework, I can tell you that there are a LOT of freebie reports being given away that DO offer that strategy as a way to get started. I pity the poor newbie who hasn’t got a clue about differentiating between useful information and crap.
Part of the problem, or challenge, is that the whole mystique of “making a living online” has been hyped to the point that people honestly don’t realize it’s still work no matter how you slice it. Gurus tend to sell the sizzle of big money without ever exposing the reality of the original effort required. For example, have you EVER seen a website that says “You can make money online, but you will have to learn a lot, and work hard for some time, and your results will build over time as you increase your knowledge and abilities, and simple does not equal easy in the real world.”??? Of course not … how many people would buy THAT book?
Rant over. Thanks for listening.
I’m CCGAL on Twitter (where I follow you) and Eurythmia on eBay.
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July 23rd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Hi Donna,
My worst JV story is I don’t have one, from either side of the fence
Great article, and great content in the comments. It’s rare to see a blogger so active down here. Props to you.
I vote for:
Donna Fox’ll Swat You Upside The Head If You JV Like This
Seriously: Donna Fox’s Rules of JV Engagement
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August 21st, 2008 at 10:42 am
Great idea Donna, I think this would really have the potential to help a lot of people.
I get calls/emails like that now and then too and I will admit I’ve helped some people here and there even though the approach was really, really bad, but when I am speaking with someone and I feel they’re genuine (albeit they are misguided and confused) and just trying to do ’something’ to get started, then I am often happy to help in some way.
I have to admit that some of the stories in the replies here are scary though lol and some bring up bad memories so let’s not dwell on those anymore and instead I chose to move forward
I do commend those that are at least trying to take action instead of just sitting on the fence and I think your guide can help those that are actually giving it a ‘go’.
Xavier
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DonnaFox Reply:
September 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
@Xavier Nelson -
Ok, your comment convinced me. I’ve scheduled this project as something to work on while I’m traveling in Asia.
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August 28th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Interesting thread: I vote for this title, @DonnaFox:
“Donna Fox’s Joint Venture (JV) Rules of Engagement”
- 7 Things Which Will Get You on the S*** List Fast
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DonnaFox Reply:
September 21st, 2008 at 4:14 pm
@Cheri Sigmon -
I LOVE that subhead
Do I dare? LOL
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November 2nd, 2008 at 3:22 am
Hey Donna
I see JV relationships just like courting. You know, you get to know each other, date, make a committment, maybe get married.You’re in it for the long term.
Unfortunately, so many people treat a JV like a one-night stand.Sometimes the pick up lines they use are just as sleezy as you’d expect from a serial one-night dater!
So my suggestion…
The JV Dating Rule Book: How not to be a JV one-night stand”
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